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Any serious approach would involve user/formatter/admin access models but that ain't gunna happen not nohow. Anyway a start has been made within the confines of our own little virtual paper bag? Aufcl ( talk ) 21:48, 12 September 2015 (UTC) Thanks for muddling along with. Update: I think Alex did it to me again - i can't seem to "format" anything other than background-color when applying straight colgroup col tags outside of wiki mark-up nor under wiki markup using the faux colgroup fax col approach. If you can verify, then we can safely call day1 a big honkin' waste of time. If so, the focus shifts back to coming up with css definitions using pseudo attributes nth-child /or nth-of-type that Mediawiki:s was originally geared for. george Orwell iii ( talk ) 22:05, 12 September 2015 (UTC) I don't think i understand (unless you are referring to the vertical-align:middle; weirdness i alluded to earlier?) As a quick test: Eat your heart out Isaac Newton!

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The vein of questions I hoped to address first based on this tble example was whether it made more "sense" to make.css definitions (.faux-table-separate. Faux-inline-table-collapse or something along those lines ) or define just 2 and let the sister remaining 2 associations be handled via inline styling embedded within a template or two instead. The same sort of step-by-step "outlining" would be done for the thesis remaining table elements and then we'd start worrying about things like dot leaders and anchor page linking Hope that made sense. george Orwell iii ( talk ) 21:21, 12 September 2015 (UTC) Pretty much the response i expected. I agree with the four-way "table" class split although had already mentally tagged the separate/collapse pairing as border/no-border if an alternate semantics is permissible. As for staring at the "wrong-end" I thought it better to start with the impossible problems and raise all the issues I came across knowing the simpler ones would be solved near automatically later. Assembly-language generation: what can I say? The col/rowspan stuff is do-able but my solution is ugly and must be bettered to be accepted. The table teaser is just that and if it provokes some thought that is probably enough in itself. Sad to say the bulk-standard-class approach is incompatible with the "let ordinary plebs do the formatting as well as proofread" model.

Aufcl ( talk ) 21:07, 12 September 2015 (UTC) holy Sh! I thought we'd start today but I see i need to catch up to you quickly - i have not found anyway to mimic colspan or rowspan under faux based tables (at least not yet) so put that back burner for now. Second, i see you've gone right to addressing the biography content within a cell rather than where i had hoped - building a baseline css to create simple (and repetitive) formatting for index or toc reproduction purposes. That is why i linked to the current html5 valid elements and what they provide as default. Css attributes w/ their values as per the W3 specs yesterday. Take the opening table tag for example: the primary variance hinges upon the default display: value table or the alternative value inline-table. The next critical attribute is border-collapse: where the default is separate - which comes with associated attributes border-spacing: 2px 2px; empty-cells:show; while the 'alternative' for same border-collapse: is collapse - which comes with associated attributes border-spacing: 0 0; empty-cells:hide.

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Aufcl ( talk ) 13:24, 12 September 2015 (UTC) Although mentioned above to make this point explicit the current mediawiki parser appears to "optimise away" the construct span!-Any comment- /span as demonstrated here. Normally who would care but guess who foolishly crafted their css to use this as a null place-holder as it happens to still work on.21wmf12 testbed (Yes I stuffed up—that's another story.) aufcl ( talk ) 13:24, 12 September 2015 (UTC) Also mentioned. At a technical level are you aware of a more-universal solution spondylolisthesis to the "use background: with a colour-specification (transparent not allowed on a higher z-index: layer to wipe out unwanted artefacts drawn by foreground components of a lower z-index: layer" problem, especially since the base. Painting around blobs of white is just amateurish. Aufcl ( talk ) 21:07, 12 September 2015 (UTC) Which brings up the general problem that a lot of opposition to leaders stems from the fact html solutions for the desktop don't translate into mobile mode (yes i know a favourite topic of yours.) aufcl. And you thought dotted toc page listing was a complicated beast! This stuff is likely to kill template limits: maybe we need to co-opt a tool-labs guy and start thinking along the lines of preprocessing?

Item Price 896 scsi card 53 lowhigh Range demo 2 "Traditional" dotted toc page listing invocation for reference purposesfaux version of above utilising lua chap. Title what runs on and on and on and on until it wraps around the whole line to test hanging indent wrapping behaviour something akin to how this line behaves! I do not seriously expect anybody to be remotely interested in what I have to say faux version with inline constant strings Chap. I do not seriously expect anybody to be remotely interested in what I have to say i have just wasted hours on an annoyance which amounts to some part of mediawiki which expunges the combination span /span before it hits the browser. The old version did not do that! Aufcl ( talk ) 07:29, 12 September 2015 (UTC) Some questions edit how does go about one merging two adjacent "cells" within the faux-table model? (I realise this question may not make sense but within the toc-forming family quite often centred section or book titles may appear interspersed with regular columnar Chapter-Description-Page sets and it seems contrary to close and reopen the table structure each time such an interruption. Aufcl ( talk ) 08:25, 12 September 2015 (UTC) As an exercise in the above is there a "proper" way of implementing this construct using faux-tables: The best I could come up with was this: Top- left Top-right Centre bottom- right Bottom-left Top- left Top-right.

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Faux-tr display: table-row; border-color: inherit; vertical-align: inherit;. Faux-th display: table-cell; font-weight: bolder; padding-top: 0; padding-right: calc(1rem *.0625 padding-bottom: 0; padding-left: calc(1rem *.0625 text-align: center; vertical-align: inherit; right. As promised @ george word Orwell iii. The following might well be too stupid for words but at least it gave me some practice and familiarisation with your "faux" css set. Due to limitations in my test-bed (I have extension:css installed: i've nagged you before and won't go there again I promise!) some layouts might seem a bit wonky. I have tried to note issues as they have cropped up as well as expunge misleading ones as resolved but may have slipped.

Additional css (supplementing "standard" faux set).faux-leader dot-leader attempt: first sub-span normal;second is leader content floated to left and bottom;third(optional) floats to right and bottom. Faux-leader span leftmost content background: white; If only background:inherit caused a draw operation! Need a colour to wipe out leader droppings. Faux-leader span span leader fill content background-color: transparent; probably does nothing float: left; letter-spacing: 4px; width: 0; white-space: nowrap; z-index: 0; need to draw beneath everything else. Faux-leader span span span rightmost content background: white; same considerations as first span; wipes out leader droppings float: right; letter-spacing: inherit; undo span 2 letter-spacing width: auto; undo span 2 width z-index: 1; draw atop leader use within "table" Example lot No.

Let me get a bit of (only semi-related) basic research out of the road and I'll get back. I'll ping you then. Aufcl ( talk ) 02:49, 12 September 2015 (UTC) @ george Orwell iii :my english is largely insufficient to understand what means "slippery eye-talian Alex" in its semantic subtleties, but. This page is really very interesting and inspiring! . ) Unluckily, dealing with complex tables, i hoped that col (or faux-col) support text-align and vertical-align properties - they can't ; I never feel the need to use background-color, so the unique interesting property i could use is border ; this doesn't avoid the need. alex brollo ( talk ) 13:08, 16 September 2015 (UTC) @charset "utf-8 * Help pick a name * * Finally css3 has presented us with a way to mimic the * old-school col tag for formatting repetitive settings down * all the cells.

Format 1 cell and you've formatted the entire column. Faux-table-s display: table; box-sizing: border-box; border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 2px 2px; empty-cells: show;. Faux-table-c display: table; box-sizing: border-box; border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0 0; empty-cells: hide;. Faux-thead display: table-header-group; border-color: inherit; vertical-align: middle;. Faux-tbody display: table-row-group; border-color: inherit; vertical-align: middle;. Faux-tfoot display: table-footer-group; border-color: inherit; vertical-align: middle;.

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Item Price 896 scsi card 53 so ions again, the solution for sometime now has been the application of newest advancements in css3 (works for everybody except those still using IE8 or lower that is;. Hardly anyone at this point). Why can't people just change with the times when it comes to this? george Orwell iii ( talk ) 01:59, 12 September 2015 (UTC) That is so pretty (sob!) I cut myself off earlier before stating i agreed all points (that has not changed since and besides I figured you already knew.) Now where is this piece. Aufcl ( talk ) 02:14, 12 September 2015 (UTC) Where? Its not like anyone else literature beside yourself is going to help me think this through from inception to application is there? Where do you think this should take place? All i know is the very first thing that we need address is how best to mimic the current table html stylings with their faux div counterparts while keeping an eye towards practical/common ws usage in our. george Orwell iii ( talk ) 02:34, 12 September 2015 (UTC) you damned opportunist, you.

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Faux-caption display: table-caption; text-align: center;. Faux-thead display: table-header-group; vertical-align: middle;. Faux-tbody display: table-row-group; vertical-align: middle;. Faux-tfoot display: table-footer-group; vertical-align: middle;. Faux-tr display: table-row; vertical-align: inherit;. Faux-td display: table-cell; padding-top: 0; padding-right: calc(1rem *.0625 padding-bottom: 0; padding-left: calc(1rem *.0625 vertical-align: inherit;. Faux-th display: table-cell; font-weight: bolder; padding-top: 0; padding-right: calc(1rem *.0625 padding-bottom: 0; padding-left: calc(1rem *.0625 text-align: center; vertical-align: inherit;. And then build the following table to reproduce colgroup and col capability, div class"faux-table" div div class"faux-colgroup" div class"faux-col" div class"faux-col" div class"faux-col" /div div class"faux-tbody" div class"faux-tr" div div div /div div class"faux-tr" div div class"faux-td" scsi card /div div /div /div /div. Below is the final rendering with the faux tok colgroup and faux col tags applying background colors just like the normal col and colgroup html tags would outside of the wiki markup environment.

12 September 2015 (UTC) Agree. Its that slippery eye-talian Alex who keeps forcing me to try and pick-up and/or correct where he last leaves a singular topic "off" dot leader magic need not rely on the td holding the "text". If we can get dot leader magic into some sort of div based template this is a non issue same as above. Td formatting should not care what resides within that cell nor what (if anything) that thing "does". Pretty soon I'm just going to shove "faux tables" down everybody's throat - it seems like the only way to make folks realize its the key to near exacting html table renderings found with their true html table tag counterparts. In short, if the following. Css is in "effect".faux-table display: table; border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 2px 2px; empty-cells: show;.

One warning: it would appear to be currently unused outside of its own documentation (on further investigation it appears only george Orwell iii and myself have ever mentioned it in the past; probably nobody else even knows about it?) aufcl ( talk ) 23:34,. The problem I see with either approach is overcoming the longstanding poor practices when comes to table application. If we can manage to separate the approaches for occasional complex tables (tables found in the body of a psm article for example) and frequent common tables (such as the toc or index for psm volumes i'm sure we can come up with a less. The first step has always been reaching some sort of community consensus of what exactly the "baseline" formatting for both occasional-complex and frequent-common table types should be and then build (templatizize) from there as user needs or formatting caveats may require. I never understood why we can't seem to do this for at least a single row of the more common toc entries between 2 to 5 table-cells long per row even. george Orwell iii ( talk ) 23:56, 11 September 2015 (UTC) This is not the place to have this conversation. The "community" will instantly split itself into two camps: those who expect dot-leaders to work; and those who do not want them at all.

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Contents back to basics edit, salmon ravioli.95, fried Calamari.95, almond Prawn Cocktail, with orange and potato salad, spring carrots, blue cheese, tuna, and prawns. One should never assume that his side of the issue will be recognized, let alone that it will be conceded to have merits. Bruschetta.25, margherita pizza.95 bending the basics (to see what breaks) edit, salmon ravioli.95, fried Calamari.95, almond Prawn Cocktail, with orange and potato salad, spring carrots, blue cheese, tuna, and prawns. Bruschetta.25, margherita pizza.95 this seems robust (but complicated!) edit, salmon ravioli 795, fried Calamari 895, almond Prawn Cocktail, with orange and potato salad, spring carrots, blue cheese, tuna, and prawns. Margherita pizza 1095, cell 1? Edit, cell 1 is often different in styling from all the other cells of the same column; I really need col tag for complex tables house formatting. Alex brollo ( talk ) 14:05, 7 September 2015 (UTC) alex brollo : This is only the. Css that supports a single test example. More at, t2986., george Orwell iii ( talk ) 01:12, 9 September 2015 (UTC) Is aligned table worth mentioning here as a possible alternative for Alex's consideration?

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